Face Masks didn't help

[Katy1966]

What most people have known all along has once again been declared that Face Masks made Little to NO difference in preventing the spread of covid:

Face masks made ‘little to no difference’ in preventing spread of COVID, scientific review finds (yahoo.com)

 

What's surprising is that last year we were told that N95 and KN95 masks were the only ones to help prevent the spread, now even those are in the category of worthless. But people are still masking up. Why?

[Kyng]

As an accompaniment to the linked article, I'll also leave this one, presenting some counter-arguments:

https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spreading-covid-despite-a-review-saying-they-dont-198992?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=bylinetwitterbutton

The scientific review examined 78 studies - but these weren't all testing the same things to begin with - and in many of them, compliance with the masking advice was poor (most of the people being tested didn't bother wearing the masks all the time). Furthermore, most of these studies only addressed the question of whether wearing a mask protects you from other people: they did not address the separate, but equally important, question of whether it protects other people from you.

So, I certainly wouldn't take this review as "definitive proof that all masks are completely worthless". (Indeed, if I read the article linked in the OP, it seems that the authors themselves were aware of the limitations of their own review... but of course, they can't control how the media reports and spins it!)

[Katy1966]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:43 PM, Kyng said:

As an accompaniment to the linked article, I'll also leave this one, presenting some counter-arguments:

https://theconversation.com/yes-masks-reduce-the-risk-of-spreading-covid-despite-a-review-saying-they-dont-198992?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=bylinetwitterbutton

The scientific review examined 78 studies - but these weren't all testing the same things to begin with - and in many of them, compliance with the masking advice was poor (most of the people being tested didn't bother wearing the masks all the time). Furthermore, most of these studies only addressed the question of whether wearing a mask protects you from other people: they did not address the separate, but equally important, question of whether it protects other people from you.

So, I certainly wouldn't take this review as "definitive proof that all masks are completely worthless". (Indeed, if I read the article linked in the OP, it seems that the authors themselves were aware of the limitations of their own review... but of course, they can't control how the media reports and spins it!)

 

I don't understand what you mean by a difference in how the mask has protection "whether wearing a mask protects you from other people: they did not address the separate, but equally important, question of whether it protects other people from you."  If germs get through the fabric, it doesn't really matter which direction it's going in. That's what the studies are showing, the germs are getting through.

[Kyng]

3 hours ago, Katy1966 said:

 

I don't understand what you mean by a difference in how the mask has protection "whether wearing a mask protects you from other people: they did not address the separate, but equally important, question of whether it protects other people from you."  If germs get through the fabric, it doesn't really matter which direction it's going in. That's what the studies are showing, the germs are getting through.

The problem with the bolded statement is: face masks don't cover the entire body (or even the entire face). Thus, the virus doesn't have to pass through your mask in order to infect you.

Sure, they might offer some protection against the virus being breathed in. However, they offer zero protection against getting the virus via your hands, the rest of your face, or any other part of the body that they don't cover. On the other hand, they are designed to offer protection against people breathing it out (which is the main method by which transmission begins).

That's why "Do they protect you from other people?" and "Do they protect other people from you?" have to be treated as separate questions. They're designed primarily for the latter, and they're inherently limited when it comes to the former. 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Kyng

[Katy1966]

So, you're agreeing that masks are worthless since the virus gains entry elsewhere such as the eyeballs?

[Grungie]

9 hours ago, Katy1966 said:

So, you're agreeing that masks are worthless since the virus gains entry elsewhere such as the eyeballs?

The mask was more to protect you from spreading it to others, and not you contracting it from others.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Grungie

[Kyng]

5 hours ago, Katy1966 said:

So, you're agreeing that masks are worthless since the virus gains entry elsewhere such as the eyeballs?

No.

That's like saying cars are worthless because they can't get you to the moon, or hammers are worthless because they can't undo screws.

Masks are designed for one form of protection. The fact that they can't do other forms of protection doesn't make them "worthless": it just means they aren't the be-all and end-all. 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Kyng

[Katy1966]

16 hours ago, Kyng said:

No.

That's like saying cars are worthless because they can't get you to the moon, or hammers are worthless because they can't undo screws.

Masks are designed for one form of protection. The fact that they can't do other forms of protection doesn't make them "worthless": it just means they aren't the be-all and end-all. 

 

The sources that said they protected from Covid were proven wrong though. And this isn't something new, before masks were mandated scientists said they wouldn't help or make a huge difference. It wasn't until Fauci changed his mind that others jumped on that bandwagon and then it was like a religion that needed to be adhered to or you were risking someone's life. That turned out to not be true.

[Kyng]

2 hours ago, Katy1966 said:

 

The sources that said they protected from Covid were proven wrong though. And this isn't something new, before masks were mandated scientists said they wouldn't help or make a huge difference. It wasn't until Fauci changed his mind that others jumped on that bandwagon and then it was like a religion that needed to be adhered to or you were risking someone's life. That turned out to not be true.

Well, they certainly weren't proven wrong by the study linked in the OP: I already linked an article that explained, in detail, what the problems and limitations with that study were. And to be honest, I think anything said "before masks were mandated" has to be treated as outdated at this point: it's been three years, and vastly more research has been done since then.

Anyway, I get the sense that the conversation is just starting to go around in circles - and therefore, I think I'll stop here. 

[Katy1966]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:22 AM, Kyng said:

Well, they certainly weren't proven wrong by the study linked in the OP: I already linked an article that explained, in detail, what the problems and limitations with that study were. And to be honest, I think anything said "before masks were mandated" has to be treated as outdated at this point: it's been three years, and vastly more research has been done since then.

Anyway, I get the sense that the conversation is just starting to go around in circles - and therefore, I think I'll stop here. 

 

I read the article you linked and it agreed that most masks weren't made to prevent respiratory illnesses. Did you read that part? The majority of the public for 3 years wear the mask that is most comfortable for them to breathe in and those are worthless, even your article agrees. 

Your article's focus was mainly the hospital setting for mask wearing, but the article I linked to concerned the public community setting. And it wasn't just one study but a set of numerous studies done in various conditions. 

[ZandraJoi]

The flimsy cotton ones have been proven by the bigwigs even to offer very little protection. Plus, if this virus was so horrible, why didn't they have biohazard bins to put said masks & gloves in?

As for protecting others, I am only responsible for my own self. I have seen people wear masks & then pull it down to smoke. Or go through a McDonald's drive-thru & order junk. This is the only virus where they used the excuse of "protecting others" to this extreme. They made the healthy stay home using the excuse we may be "carriers".

People were so afraid of dying that they forgot how to actually LIVE.

[Grungie]

8 hours ago, ZandraJoi said:

The flimsy cotton ones have been proven by the bigwigs even to offer very little protection. Plus, if this virus was so horrible, why didn't they have biohazard bins to put said masks & gloves in?

As for protecting others, I am only responsible for my own self. I have seen people wear masks & then pull it down to smoke. Or go through a McDonald's drive-thru & order junk. This is the only virus where they used the excuse of "protecting others" to this extreme. They made the healthy stay home using the excuse we may be "carriers".

People were so afraid of dying that they forgot how to actually LIVE.

The way COVID is spread is through someone who has it (or is carrying it) to exhale it and someone inhales it. If you take that into account, that's why social distancing, masks, and lockdowns were pushed.

Biohazard bins are for proper disposal of things like needles, and other things that you can contract things through physical contact. Since COVID is contracted through airborne means and not physical means, you don't have to dispose of the masks in biohazard bins. You won't catch COVID from touching a mask like you would Hepatitis from a used needle.

The whole "protecting others" bit is because people weren't doing it. If you were walking around without a mask (or dumber, wear a chin diaper), and you were unknowingly carrying COVID, you could have exhaled it to someone healthy, and they would have gotten sick because of you. 

The McDonalds rant is really pointless, as you getting high cholesterol from eating a Big Mac doesn't affect anyone else but you. Cigarettes are debatable due to second hand smoke, but if you're far away from people, you're not hurting anyone but yourself.